Forum:Ban the Hayabusa armor?

I was curious what people thought, but should we ban the Hayabusa armor from canon articles? Maybe not in the Halo: What If? alternate universe, but in canon articles people just use them for the look. So, what are all of your thoughts? Should we officially ban the Hayabusa armor from canon articles (maybe not if they give a really, really good reason for it)? --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 14:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It's just an armour. I really don't see any problems of an article having a HAYABUSA armour in it. Why do you guys hate it so much? Is it because it has been overused or is it too common on XBL? 15:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

YES ABSOLUTELY! The armor just looks keen, but it honestly is terrible, and is no different than the Mk.VI MJOLNIR armor.--The Evil  O’Malley  15:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks good online but really it just shows that some noob wants to follow everyone else and look like a ninja! That's why i don't use it (i haven't got the head either)! As for fanon articles, it does look stupid. Fair enough for online but it seems unrealistic that the UNSC, in real life, would create a ninja powered assault harness! Read what i just typed (ninja harness thingy), and tell me whether it sounds right? Whether it looks right? So yes it should be banned. If we get administration's opinion we can have a vote and decide. What do you think?

There doesn't need to be a ban of the Hayabusa but generally rules pertaining to armour Permutations in general. Armour perms are something that frustrate me to no end because theres always somebody making a banana yellow guy with security helmet, katana chest plate and EOD shoulder pads and so on. The simple truth is, to the largest extent, stuff like this is none cannon. Like why would a spartan opt to use a less well armoured, shieldless ODST armour or the totally unshielded hayabusa armour? And why would spartans, paragons of military tactics and discipline throw out their UNSC olive green armour, the single thing tieing them to their ordinary human comrades and then go in bright purple armour, brilliant camoflauge in any terrain.

Another way to think of this is like this. Imagine you have three suits. Ones a diving suit, ones a EVA astronaught suit and one is knight armour. Now try and mix and match those. Lets see you go into space with only a astronaught's helemt, a diving suit and a shield. Or alternatly go to war with a astronaught suit, jet pack for space manouvres and a knights helmet. Or lets go scuba diving in full knights armour, scuba gear and a pipe to contact you to your shuttle. Maybe not the best analogy but you get the point. Why would a spartan go into combat with a unshielded, inferior ODST helmet, a katana, a unshielded chest piece, a shoulder pad extremely resistant to explosive and a shoulder pad that makes you stealthy. Another way to think of this is to think of each armour as a 'whole suit' rather thn just individual components. IE CQB is modified to improve k dispersal and joint manouvrability. Think that just extends to the shoulde pads, helmet and chest piece? Or the scout armour, filled with stealth gear, don't you think that those stealth materials would extend throguh the whole armour? Or, if you think mix and match should be canon, think of it in this way. why would you mix a shoulder piece that improves K dispersal, a helmet that aids you in EVA moves, a chest piece that resists explosives and a shoulder pad that improves stealth qualities. Now you've mixed and matched them, is that armour really going to be both stealth, space manouvrable, explosive resistant and has improved methods of K dispersal and joint manouvrability? Since you've mashed them all together you've lost the functions of all of them and made yourself a substandard piece of crap. Much akin to going into sapce with a astronaughts helmet, diving suit and bits and pieces of knight armour. Your going to die a horrible death. Horrible.

What is needed is an 'excuse' as to why they have a certain armour. Sadly thats not going to work for the security, ODST, hayabusa and the.. erm.. whats it called? The rubbish mass produced one? Anyway, thats because ones a prototype, one is mass produced and two are unshielded and all were never adopted by the SPARTANS. Your not willingly going to go into battle with a prototype or a mass produced unit when you could have shielding? Though saying that, Hayabusa, Security and the mass produced one could be used if there is a lack of MJOLNIR VI or V when they are needed, but i'd imagine that would be recitifed in a short time. You don't want the most expensive living weapon in the UNSC's history to be ill/under equipped. Now for the CQB, EVA, EOD, Scout and recon, there needs to be an excuse as well. For the EVA, i'd imagine a SPARTAN wouldn't use a EVA out of space duty, unless their normal armour was trashed. Further more i'd imagine only scouts, snipers, stealthy fellas, close quaters experts and explosives dudes would use those respective armour. My excuse for ajax using the CQB is the excuse that only a CQB version was availible, and that there were few models of the VI availible for use, to he used that. Further more, for my stealth spartan, she has the Scout because she was in australia, armourless when the covenant strike came so she picked up the nearest MJOLNIR she could. The Scout armour undergoing trials nearby. Of course, eagle eyed people may notice that Ajax's armour is infact blue. Or was the last time i checked. This image was from before Halo 3, or the armour generator, were released, thus a blue CQB dude was all i could get, so i made the best of it that it was hastily repainted for combat on a planet with blue fauna. Or a aquatic world. Or something blue, though i since trashed that idea.

During my creation of my VII armour, i chose purposly to make updated versions of the Hayabusa, Security and erm.. the mas produced one, but then i chose purposly not to use them, simple because, as previously mentioned, they suck. Big time.

In conclusion. Armour needs to be much more carefully looked at. Mix and match simple isn't canon, as per my great wall of text.

And yes, ban Hayabusa

True, the Hayabusa armor is overused and extremely popular on Xbox Live (me and my brother played XBL together once; every game we joined had a a Hayabusa!), but does such drastic action need to be taken on it? -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 20:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I've ALWAYS thought that, I hate it when people make thier characters armor mixed and colorful and stupid. I removed the choice of having mixed colored armor perms in my image making service.--The Evil  O’Malley  21:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm with O'malley and H*Bad and whoever is against HAYBABUSA on this. Ban it! And for that matter, make and effort to educate people that even though armor perms make no difference in game, they make a difference out of game!

24.19.182.51 05:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Well said everyone, i totally agree. I actually found someones spartan 4 programme on this site and each fire team had different armour and colours. They looked hideous! I was ashamed to be on the same site as them! Despite excuses, like my spartan 3 having EVA head and CQB shoulders because that's the closest i could get a spartan 2 to look like a spartan 3! So yeas i think that every mixed armour type, with no decent excuse should have a non canon friendly template on them. This just adds in to the 5000th article! It was a crap 5000th article because the spelling was bad and it had hardly any detail. This site has some amazing articles. About 2000 of them but the other 3000 i bet are rubbish and unused. We should do some random pages and any crap articles should be up for deletion. I bet their authers don't even contribute any more so what's to loose? Making the ugliest looking spartan and trying to beat others wikis with the amounts of articles is stupid. As they've always said; "Quality over Quantity!" I leave it at that!

Not sure if an outright ban on Hayabusa is needed, but I do agree wholeheartedly that some armor permutations/permutation combinations do look ridiculous. Here are some of the permutations that I think we should avoid using: Katanas, on the other hand, have no use on a 21st century battlefield, let alone a 26th century battlefield! We might want to ban them, with perhaps a FEW exceptions i.e. A Japanese guy's family heirloom, worn mainly for ceremonial purpose as Japanese officers did in WWII, but even then, it seems unlikely he'd wear it into battle (even if WWII Japanese officers did). SPARTAN 119 23:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)SPARTAN 119
 * Hayabusa
 * Katana
 * Any weird "mix and match" armor, particularly ones that have different permutations for each shoulder, i.e left shoulder EVA, right shoulder CQB etc.

Good point. I see that many people are comming up with many ideas but they all need sorting out. So below is a list of things, which we want banning. Blleow that we can discuss further. This way we all know what we want getting rid of. I'm going to put the ones, which have already been brought up and hopefully people will add more. If you disagree with some of these then please stat so on the comments. If nescessary, Admins, we could even through up a vote? This coudl work towards Unrealism, which is my next phase in revolutionising this site to make better articles (god modding was the first)! Hopefully from this we can work something out:

Banned perms request list
(please add to this list)


 * Hayabusa
 * Katana
 * Seriously mixed armour perms
 * Mixed colours
 * Abstract colours (Elites may be ok on this one)
 * Unjustified exceptions
 * Extremely Modified Armor (Ridiculous Add-ons)

Comments
Thanks to any contributors. If you have any objections then just say, we can work together to sort all of this out. =D

I'm gonna point out that Hank J Wimbleton IV uses a katana, as it's a family heirloom, but it has some Halo-era upgrades to it. --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 15:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Several of my characters had modified armours (slight modification) and used Red as their armour colour rather than the default Green. (I already justified this by saying those are for Practicing Scenario)...16:29, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Lets not just ban it because the majority dont like the armour or mixed perms etc. People have the right to choose what they want and like. 1st Lieutenant Aiden Smith 00:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Its not going to be banned. Mostly because it falls under the umbrella of 'non-canon friendly'. Now, linkage to this guy of yours with it on so I can slap it up with the tag :D

Huh? That last sentance did not make sence!

First of all Ajax are you saying that Bungie made something non-canon friendly? Secondly, Parkster who are you talking to me or someone else??? 1st Lieutenant Aiden Smith 17:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hayabusa was made just for multiplayer.--The Evil  O’Malley  17:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The hayabusa itself is not NCF, but, the use of it by a Spartan is.

Support (Yes Ban)
--

--The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  19:09, 1 June 2008 (UTC) --<font color=#00FF00>MCPO James Davis LOMI HQ<font color=#33FFFF>I hear your cries<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable 19:39, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

-- Just Another Grunt Converse

Oppose (No Ban)
--18:57, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

--1st Lieutenant Aiden Smith 19:54, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

--112 20:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

--Eaite&#39;Oodat 02:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

--The Great Lord Lycan

-- -- If someone wants their SPARTAN to look ridiculous, let them. If it's NCF or god-modded, that's something else. 08:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

--Logmon 19:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments
I'm gonna point something out to all of you, but we'll be banning it since it's NCF for a Spartan to wear. All Spartans were equipped with MJOLNIR, so Hayabusa wouldn't be used, thus making it NCF. --<font color=#00FF00>MCPO James Davis LOMI HQ<font color=#33FFFF>I hear your cries<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable 14:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What about a non-Spartan character who may be Japanese or a special unit or something?Logmon 19:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What? Spartan armor has too much pressure on a normal Human. And what the fuck do you mean a Japanese person?! How many Japanese soldiers do you see up to date that wear samurai armor to battle!? Let alone the future!!--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  19:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Uh, nationality isn't as consideration (the MJOLNIR armour is based on greek armour, but the SPARTAN-IIs aren't greek, so to the SPI and the IIIs and not being italian) And Special Forces Units where the same armour as the ODSTs. To Malley, the Hayabusa is a independant armour to the MJOLNIR, theres a chance it could in fact work on a normal human


 * Language there O'Malley...both statements are true...Logmon, maybe just use the available armour we have which is not prohibited....19:14, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, I was just giving out possible excuses for HAYABUSA, I'm not gonna use it. And perhaps a Japanese branch of the UNSC would base their armor off their fuedal past... Anyway, I won't be using the n00b perm for any of my articals...


 * And they provided the answers...What Ajax said should justify why...19:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Not problem, P.S. anyone know that kind of armor I shold give Elites in the SOT? I was thinking maybe Flight...Logmon 20:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * IMO, any armour for Elites is permissible. All of them played a role in the Covenant...20:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If i see a a Elite frontline soldier in Flight i'm gonna kick off. Arm the Elites APPROPRIATLY, Ie, flight on Pilots, Ascetic on Ascetics, Commando on Commandos, assault on post schism elites, so on and so forth. The only case of 'mix perming i will accept is Combat Harness helmet on Assault body and shoulder pad. Anything else and I'll kick off.


 * Well, all SOT are given Stealth-specific suits standard issue and proceed to alter them in any needed ways (I.E. "N" Uses an EVA head on a Recon Body to help with piloting.)


 * We just said: NO MIXED ARMOUR!!! 20:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What the hell is the point in that? EVA isn't going to help him pilot ships, its for increased optimal ability in space enviroments. Having a EVA helmet on Recon would just ruin his whole stealth profile. Furthermore, He ISN'T a SPARTAN. He wears that, he's going to kill himself.

Provide a Reason
Don't use Hayabusa armor unless you provide a reason. --Lord Lycan 20:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We already established this FYI, maybe we need a templete for p[ages that need a reason for something?Logmon 20:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * We don't need another template. Just having it stated in the Talk Page is enough...20:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Wait, wasn't project HAYABUSA the rival of project MJOLNIR? It just wasn't ever used. Someone should go do some reasearch about it on Halopedia. --Lord Lycan 21:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

We already established that in the beginning of the forum...*sigh*...21:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It was released earlier than MJOLNIR Mk.VI, making it less advanced.

Plus, the only reason, it looks that way, was to strike fear into the enemy, but as it is, the Covenant fear the spartans anyway.

MJOLNIR Mk.VI is most likely cheaper, due to its lightness, and smaller design. I know you're all going to say, but you don't know for sure, except the obvious noobs, boo-freaken-hoo.

There is no freaken difference between the MJOLNIR, and HAYABUSA, except for the inevitable price, which fairs by the least.

By the look of it, it isn't canon, BUNGiE would know better, it was just made for multiplayer use, and they just put in a cheap excuse. It's as canon as multiplayer battles.

My reasons.

Oh and Ajax, who cares about what these noobs say, it's NCF, therefore must be disposed of.--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  23:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

"There is no freaken difference between the MJOLNIR, and HAYABUSA" Exactly so why ban it!112 00:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Because MJOLNIR Mk.VI is cheaper, and easier to make. The only reason, that it is so unique, is to strike fear into enemies, but now that we know the covenant, we don't need to spook the friggin heck out of them. Plus, the project was abandoned, therefore the armor was never released.--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  01:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, taking a page from the book of O'malley's arguments, "the MJOLNIR is there already, so we don't need the HAYABUSA". But of course, adding in my own arguments, I have a few points.

1. As stated, the HAYABUSA was made exclusively for the Multiplayer. The separate project thing was just to give an excuse.

2. The samurai design doesn't really do much to "strike fear" anyway. Japanese would have no need for the design too. It is much less efficient than the MJOLNIR helmet in that it's easily seen.

Well, yeah. I don't talk much anymore, but I'm still a member of the community. --117649AnnihilativeRepentance 01:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That's my point, thank you for agreeing (For once).--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  01:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

You guys are thinking too hard, and, more importantly, taking the "fan" out of fanon. If we were to ban the use of Hayabusa, what's next? The ban of Halo 2 and 3-styled marine uniforms in September of 2552? The ban of marines using SPARTAN lasers? Banning characters that supposedly appeared in levels? Banning originality? Fan fiction is a fan's non-canonical writings of the Halo universe, in this case. Oh, did you hear that? Fan fiction is non-canon, meaning "it's not canon". If it's not canon, why should it be forced be able to be canon? It never was, will, or even intended to be. Ultimately, why ban Hayabusa? "SPARTANs don't wear it." There's also nobody named Gary Saunders, Phynn Garland, Troy Malina, Shch 'Nodotee, Grel Dar 'Wandoree, or Dawah in canon. Do we ban them, along with the other 1,000+ characters? Ironically, if SPARTANs never wear Hayabusa, then why would Hayabusa be only seen on SPARTANs themselves? 05:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It never was released, go check the HAYABUSA page on Halopedia.--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  13:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I think we had this discussion about taking "Fan" out of Fan-Fiction or Fanon...07:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we did, but that was just my opening line. 09:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

You're right but if we didn't obey cannon then our articles would be crap! We need foundations to support our work.

As i have been saying all this time, the majority of use by the Hayabusa comes under the umbrella of 'NCF'. Mostly because people who do use it either use it on normal humans or use it on SPARTANs post 2552. Like i said before, the only feasible way i could see someone using the Hayabusa is if they were test running it against the covenant in combat before going back to the MJOLNIR.

If somebody can find a good enough reason, I'd accept it.

On a note to Malley, its actually probably cheaper to buil the Hayabusa, lighter, might use a cheaper method of powering it and moving the armour. And i think it was actually accepted by the UNSC Ordnance Commission. You'd have to check though.


 * That's what I did, thus strengthening my reasons.--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  13:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Considerations on writer liberties
Dear all,

Just an inquiry as to why the impetus would be for the community and administration to "ban" certain armors; while some users might have unprofessional intents, others might have professional intents - if I wanted to make a page whose central picture featured a character with Hayabusa and I said I was motivated by some other reason rather than to "copy someone and look cool", how could you discriminate me from someone else who does have that reason?

Thanks much.

Regards,

RelentlessRecusant (Bureaucrat (Talk) (Contribs) 12:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd remorselessly deconstruct your reason and drop it as NCF. Wouldn't be the first time i've had to deconstruct and help you with one of your articles :P But seriously, if you created a reason good enough, I'd accept it. But i doubt you would RR, its you :P
 * ...? Regards,  RelentlessRecusant  (Bureaucrat) (Talk) (Contribs) 15:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

So if someone makes a good Hayabusa article it stays, if someone makes a bad Hayabusa article it goes. This is getting complicated. :[ -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted)[[Image:Full-metal-alchemist-wallpaper-03 ad.jpg|60px]] 12:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

My reasoning is to ban it when it's usage is NCF. However, if someone can come up with a legitimate, good excuse that actually makes sense (example: a Spartan has lost it's MJOLNIR somehow, and the only thing around is the Hayabusa, so they use it until/unless they can get their MJOLNIR back). --<font color=#00FF00>MCPO James Davis LOMI HQ<font color=#33FFFF>I hear your cries<font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable 14:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, so the point in question is about canonicity of a UNSC personnel acquiring HAYABUSA--perhaps I'm wrong (I often am :P), but it seems that there are a great number of feasible contingencies in fiction where one could acquire such HAYABUSA armor...I mean, isn't this fan fiction? Regards,  RelentlessRecusant  (Bureaucrat) (Talk) (Contribs) 15:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok well i haven't been doing my research on hyabussa armour but on a Spartan it looks silly. It was intended for multiplayer not for the story line of the halo universe. However i agree with some of you, with the fact that, if there is a good enoguh reason then it can stay. So what is going to heppen admins? Oh, before i press save: RR why do you have regards after every post =D?

ʈ== Exactly what i've been saying... ==

Provide a good reason for the armor, and it should be allowed. Becuase on Halopedia it clearly says It was available for use by the SPARTAN-II supersoldiers, although its field deployment appeared to be limited. So it should be used sparingly, also, The Hayabusa Armor's advanced materials decreased its weight by one-third, this would provide greater reflex time and allow for faster movement, so it would be an advantage and in the Revived SPARTAN-II program it was only bestowed onto troops who struggled in speed and reflex. For example, a candidate for the Revived SPARTAN-II program (Hank-098) I have yet to create was pretty slow when compared to the other SPARTANs so he was given HAYABUSA armor. Just provide a good reason and do research, that is all. --Lord Lycan 00:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, lighter "At the time", that was over 20 years before the MJOLNIR Mk.VI came out, which is clearly more advanced.--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  02:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Chiafriend mentioned a ban on marines using SPARTAN lasers in his "what's next?" post. I know that there is no literal danger of a ban on Marines wielding SPARTAN Lasers, but I didn't know Marine's couldn't wield SPARTAN Lasers. You can give it to marines in Halo 3 Halopedia states that SPARTAN laser weighs 45 lb., heavy, yes, but plenty of normal humans would be more than capable wielding a weapon of that weight (Modern soldiers do it all the time when wielding a Barrett M82 .50 Sniper Rifle or an FGM-148 Javelin Missile Launcher).

I will still be using the HAYABUSA armor for Hank-098, O' Malley. Lord Lycan 06:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, not if you give us a really really REALLY good reason.--<font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Evil  <font color="Blue">O’Malley  16:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I sippose but it just looks unrealistic. The reason why it's in canon is because bungie put a description on it to make it like the others, which actually have a reason to exist. Mark 5 and 6 are for normal fights. EVA: space. CQB: close quarters. Scout:Stealth. They're there for a reason. HYABUSSA's reason is just an excuse to ahve some info like the rest of them. However if there's a decent reason then use it. So what's happening?

7 to 4 so far banning the hayabusa is not happening. and i am saying this spartan-110 is not changing. Eaite&#39;Oodat 20:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The Cabal Has Spoken
The inner circle of evil has spoken. Hayabusa and 'armour stupidity' is under the NCF umbrella. Your ceaseless war against spartans armed with ninja armour and bright yellow incomprehensibly mixed armour. 'Armour stupidity' is now, outlawed, much like NCF stuff. You think you find this, fix it 'civilly and explain it on the talk page. However, should somebody be creating a brilliant excuse for them to have the stupid armour in the article, it is, exempt.