Forum:Why has O'malley been rebanned?

So, I get on the computer and I have a message on a talk page on another wikia. I look, and it's O'malley again, saying Rot banned him for no reason. So I come here and check the block log, and here's what Rot's reason is: "Third Strike on Civility Clause; Flaming, Abusive Language, General Hostility; Admin Vote to Reban 4-1 (three abstained)". I asked Ajax and his reasons were that O'malley called him a bastard in that picture were he requested to be unbanned, and he also said "besides, as said before, HBad had not consultated the admins, Malley broke the rules, his ban was never supposed to have been lifted in the first place". I attempted to get Ajax to listen to reason, but he wouldn't.

So in the end, O'malley was right: the admins are trying be rulers over us, making decisions that go against what the community said. And if this keeps up, I'm leaving. --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 19:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

As the other admins will atest to, the admins were not aware of Malleys unban, which they did not support in the majority, so since then we have been deciding wether or not to to support or go against his ban. The admins voted and a 4:1 result lead to Malley's ban being sustained, thus he was rebanned. He's broken the civilty rules, rules we voted to have up there to protect us, on five seperate occassions, along with spamming. Sorry, but why should Malley be above the rules? I know I am certainly not. The community vote's purpose was there to see how the community felt about it, which could influence the outcome of the admin vote. Much the same as any rules both members and admins have instigated and so on.

As i said, after a period of deliberation, the admins decided to back up the civlity rules and reinstate Malley's ban. I hope you all understand.

Didn't notice his ban...when did this happen? I thought he behaved rather well during his probation period...anyone wishing to enlighten me? 20:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

My interpretation of this insanity is that the admins (minus Ajax) didn't immediately notice that H*Bad unbanned O'malley, and when they did they tried to decide whether or not to reban him. And yes, O'malley was good during his probation, but the fact he cussed in his pic asking for an unban was brought up. --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 20:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

WTF? Admins shouldn't be able to just ban a person for a misunderstanding, thats like bringing to life a murderer by accidentally kicking his body, who goes on to become devoted to charity, then realising he killed people and killing him yourself, it's despicable, and I see O'Malley in the right right now.

You see, the thing is, H*bad made the unban without telling any of us. The unban, the probation period, all of that was unofficial and never discussed. No one is above the rules. Not even prominent members of the site, which seems to be H*bad's main reason for unban. Well, I don't care if O'Malley cured cancer, we all are under the rules here, and we don't unban simply because the ban was unpopular or because O'Malley had friends here who could post sarcastic little pictures for him. If you all want to leave because O'Malley can't follow the rules, I guess you can all have your own site (I say your own and not another because O'Malley's behavior would have had him banned at any other respectable site I visit long ago). Just don't expect me to make exceptions for O'Malley simply because he is prominent. And Justanothergrunt, if you want some false analogies, Tookie Williams, one of the leaders of the Crips gang, was convicted for killing four people in cold blood and sentenced to the death penalty. He apparently changed his ways while in prison and began writing children's books. He was still executed by lethal injection for murder in the first degree, despite the communities attempts to have him freed.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 21:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

lololol, what a stooge

And so we commit our fallen brother to space, *blasts O'Malley's ashes into space.* -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 22:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a note. O'Malley was not banned for a misunderstaning, he was banned for a repeated offense. And as for admin power abuse, this is not the case. It is well within our rights as administrators to ban someone for ignoring the civility code. Also know that administrators are supposed to be in charge of the community and can even overrule the community's wishes. For a real-life example, look no further than the American democratic system... Please, let's refrain from "people's revolution" thoughts... they do not bring unity to the wiki.

Regards,  SPARTAN-091  |Admin|   HelmetComm  22:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I am so ready to be done with the whole O'Malley thing. First hes banned, then hes unbanned, next hes banned....its getting really old. I don't care anymore, its all taking so long to be resolved.

Spartan 501 01:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Note the other admins are the only ones trying to defend themselves. I mean seriously the guy didn't do anything wrong. I mean how many times have you guys cursed? I don't think I have cursed on here before...but anyways that still stands as a truth. Look he cursed, get over it, wow it happens all of the freaking time. Don't need to be a douche, yes I just said douche oh well, about it and just have some crap vote when all of the other admins didn't get a vote and whatnot. And the fact that one admin disagreed didn't entice you to at least talk about this, yeah so much for talking about it. We just went I am against it, I am for it, etc. I am sorry to say this but I really am agreeing with LOMI that created this forum, we are way out of whack and its getting old. Although you are one of our most prominent members, I will step aside and just let you leave if you feel like it. And for the administrators reading this, I want you to know this note is not from you guys, but from me. I condone my own actions in response to this outrage. It isn't fair for the community to take a vote and to not get what they voted for. Look this was simple, they wanted a user back that was helpful and actually productive. I am sorry but you guys show me as the one that isn't right, well look at what you guys are doing. You are making one of our most prominent members leave. Sorry LOMI for bringing you up in this as an example, but still. Thanks, H*bad (talk)

Cursing is one thing, purposely going out to flame people repeatedly is another. Malley knew what he was doing when he went out to flame people. He broke the civilty rules on purpose, rules that we all vote in to protect us from such events. Why should anybody be above these rules? I'm not, I've been warned over civilty, now Malley has broken it five times, why should he be put above the rules? This is more than just getting 'stressed out' and 'swearing', theres been spamming and malicious attacks along with a purposeful intent to get banned. Thats why the admins decided to maintain the ban. Community Votes serve to see how the community feels about it and can affect the admins vote on what they think is best for the wikia. The admin team has delegated and decided it was in the wikias best intrests to uphold the ban.

I'm getting a creeping feeling this is going to evolve into something a bit bigger (i.e. an argument). -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 13:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I hope not. Debating on such problem should be done in the IRC or something close to one. Oh well, let's hope this issue never rise up again...13:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to point out what my understanding of the wikia is supposed to be: the exact same as the USA started out as, for the people, by the people. But, just like the USA, it's become where the "representatives" are now more like rulers, doing stuff against the people's consent. I don't care what you admins say you're supposed to be able to do, I'm telling you what I was told when I became an admin on another wikia, straight from a staff member's mouth, er, fingers. If the admins can overrule anything we members vote for, what's the point of this site? And yes Ajax, O'malley did do some terrible things, but I've seen spammers/flamers/vandals do ten times worse damage and get ten times less the punishment or ten times more chances. Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't even banned Lord Lycan once yet, and he said "f***" 50 times and made a personal attack on O'malley; however, just because of some vote, O'malley gets banned anyways. Now I'm almost wondering if all of you just don't like O'malley and want him to be banned; Ajax, for one, I suspect. You've made me dig through all of O'malley's articles in an attempt to find something remotely NCF so that he'd get ticked off and flame you.

And as one final point, aren't you admins breaking the rules by simply banning O'malley and not telling us? Or is that another thing that admins can do, go around and secretly ban users without anyone ever knowing?

And H*Bad, I don't mind being brought up; I still deciding whether or not to leave. I'm gonna be gone till Friday, and when I come back I'll make a decision, whether it be to leave or stay. --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 14:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Make no mistake, wikias are designed as dictatorships. A elite group of members who can be the only ones to elect members to their group. I much prefer the idea of community liason, which is why i try to keep in contact with the community as much as possible but in the end, as i said community votes serve simply as to give the feeling of the general consensus to the admin team for their eventual vote. As for the Lord Lycan issue, he did admitantly fly off the handle but its still his first civilty warning. Civilty works on the idea of instances of breaking civilty, not the qaunity or severity of it. However if you feel thats immesne wrong, I'll have a look into changing the civilty rules, and if you think its incredibly severe, I'll crank up the warning. As for the case of me disliking Malley, then yes, I do, when he chose to launch a flaming and spamming campaign on me, i gave up defending him when he broke civilty. The case of 'counter NCF' was, in all honesty, a counter 'rebuttle' to his constant of spamming and flaming my articles. There was no intention of causing him to 'blow his top', by that time he'd already done that.

Let's Stop This Now
Okay, there is not much of a point to discussing this issue anymore. Especially if admins are going to antagonize community members and vice-versa. I don't mind hearing honest opinions, like LOMI's, but if we're going to get confrontational and violent, (Ajax, H*Bad), there's no point in leaving this forum open.

LOMI: Don't leave the wiki. Please realize that admins are like the police officers of this site: we can uphold the laws of the wiki, and we don't neccessarily have to inform everyone that we are doing so. Honestly, there's really not that much power in being an admin, other than the ability to protect pages and ban users. Albeit, some admins may overstep the bounds of authority and this is definitely an issue that the admin team should address. I was OOT when O'Malley was banned, so the circumstances leading up to the ban are not clear to me. What is clear to me is that O'Malley, while popular, and a leading member of the community, was not respecting the laws of this wiki. While I admit, a permaban may be extremely harsh, we cannot allow someone to get a free pass just because he is popular. All of us are under the laws of the wiki, including admins.

Please consider these facts before making a decision.

 SPARTAN-091   | ' Admin ' |   HelmetComm  15:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand that you are supposed to act like police officers, but the way the admins are acting and actually calling yourselves has "DICTATORS" written all over it in large letters, and that is something I cannot accept. And I understand exactly what power there is in being an admin, I am one on another wiki. But what I believe here is that the admins are abusing that power; had it not been for O'malley himself telling me he'd been banned, I wouldn't have known until I'd realized he'd been missing for too long. Admins doing secrets things behind the backs of the community is not something I appreciate; you should be open with your decisions, which you are failing at. I will state what I was told once more, that the admins are simply there to take care of the wikia, they are not higher beings or some such. And Ajax, you say that everyone should be following the same rules, but let me say this: if you didn't ban Lord Lycan for saying sorry after all he did, why did you want to reban O'malley after he said he was sorry for what he did a million times. All in all, I believe the admin team is speaking out of both sides of its' mouth and being hypocritical. I personally believe that you all have a completely different view on how things are supposed to be done, and maybe that's half of why this chaos exists. As for me leaving Halo Fanon, that is my decision, and mine alone; whether I leave or not, I have the utmost respect for most of you users, whether we've agreed or disagreed in the past. --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 15:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

You have yet to address the issue, LOMI. O'Malley broke the rules. He did so on five occassions. He was warned and temp banned multiple times. The fact that we rebanned him without getting a chance to say anything, or that H*bad unbanned him prior without so much as a peep to the rest of the administration team, is irrelevant in the light of the fact that O'Malley broke the rules on multiple occassions, often intentionally, and was then banned. These are rules you guys agreed to, so I don't see why there should be such an uproar when a popular member is held to the same standards as everyone else. You talk of how administrators are not above members, and they certainly are not, but by suggesting that O'Malley should be above the rules, you are suggesting that prominent members are above the rest, and that is not only contradictory to your accusations against the administration, but also very untrue, and possibly a worse type of classism than viewing the administration as above the rest. What surprises me most is that you've been on the receiving end of O'Malley's abuse before, and yet you defend him. He sees fit to abuse you, yet you are willing to go out of your way to try and make him above the rules? It doesn't make sense to me. If you choose to leave, that is your choice, just don't expect us to make anyone, prominent or not, admin or not, God incarnate or not, above the rules, because it won't happen. If you take issue with the civility clause, then take your issue against the civility clause, and not the administration team that you entrusted to uphold it when they do uphold it.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 18:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow this is just out right obsurd I'm increasing my work on the new site ten fold, O malley was protecting this site in his way! Its like taking a patriotic who fought for his country and his government just sentencing to death because he fought for that government. I'm sick of this so many sites where originally the admins were trying not to be what they hated. But over the days, weeks, months, years they transformed into that very being. I sick of it and I spit on it! Let me change that I believe admins should hold polls on which a user should be banned or not if the majority rules against the admins have no right to ban him. In the way your doing it your not letting any user choose for themselves and you choose whats right for this wiki when most likely 99% of the time to me the choices are extremely negative. SPARTAN-089 21:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * To LOMI. i'm sorry if you feel we did this 'in stealth'. Perhaps an announcement on this would of been better. As i said with this Lord Lycan fellow, he is on his first warning. If you think he is deserving of more warning, tell me. PS, i would hate to lose you, you are wuite easily one of my favourite writers here, in my top ten of favourite writers, perhaps even top five.


 * To 089, the line between a patriot protecting this site and a vigilante harming it is a fine line. And this idea of community voting for banning is near barbaric...the idea would result in near innocent members who are unpopular being banned and the flamers who drive new members away being idolized for maintaining a cadre of elite writers while scaring off anybody else. We've done this before and we have to learn from our mistakes. Besides, the community did have a effect on who gets banned and who doesn't, the vote to bring in the civilty rules.



okay it seems that all this has shifted away from omalley and more so towards the admins. for one i believe in the way that they are running things now where as the community vote only serves to give the admins a general understanding just like how it is in US Democracy however there is one difference. we as the community dont get to vote on who can represent us when it comes to admins. from my general understanding it seems to me that the admins themselves get to pick and choose fellow admins. (If im completely wrong about that please correct me) And the community does not have a chance to vote on who we believe would be best in position. Now next on what I have to say comes from the arguement about not making a public announcement about a decision, why dont we start something where the admins can post their final verdict and the community can check it themselves. this way we eliminate the arguement of admins not announcing something and it leaves the individual responsible for gathering information on whats happening on the wikia. thats all i have to say, if its help lets put this into effect immediately, if it has not helped ingore it completely.

Hollywood

You people can all make elaborate speeches on this, either way, the outcome is still the same; O'Malley is banned. On another note, I believe the admins handled the matter in the best manner.

-- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 03:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

SPARTAN-089, if anything is absurd, calling O'Malley a patriot for flaming his fellow users is. Fighting for the governmoent? Last I checked, O'Malley was permabanned for flaming an admin. While it doesn't matter who he flamed, your false analogy of fighting for the government fails. And do you realize just how many people are banned for vandalizing? If we had to vote, even as admins, every time a ban was to be made, nothing would ever get done! A community vote would be an absolute disaster, taking at least twice as long! And when did the users have no say? The civility policy was voted for by the users, or did you forget that? The admins are obligated to uphold the rules, and this particular rule was one that you guys all voted for. Again, if you have an issue with the ban, take your fight to the civility clause, not the admins you asked to uphold it. But judging from your post, you are too jaded to see any of this logic, so I encourage you. Go make your own site. Throw out the rules, or just make certain members above the rules, and then tell me how that goes for you.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 20:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'm relatively new to this wiki, but I understand how rules work. No-one is above the rules, and if you break the rules you get punished. There should be no question about that. While I am not sure what O.malley did, it appears he broke the rules, and was punished. I see no fault in punishing someone who breaks rules. Just because he is popular does not mean he can get away with more than anyone else. Although, from what I can gather, it does seem that his punishment was slightly too harsh, but the Admins decision is final.

Now its obvious, the admins have corrupted the minds of the new users to think that all admin decisions are final. I am sorry to say this Spleenboy but you are wrong. I myself is an admin and I feel that my fellow ones have finished off the dignity that was supposed to be Halo Fanon. Thanks, H*bad (talk)

"Corrupted the minds?" Isn't that a bit extreme? -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 17:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What makes you say the new users are corrupted? I don't read the forums often, and I don't think anyone has affected my opinion. I thought that when the admins decided something that was the end of it, because in most places it is. Yes, there may be complaints from members but usually that is ignored, and the decision remains as it was.

Because you think that the decision of the admins are final, which they aren't. You think that the admins are always right, which they aren't. The decision of admins can be reversed if people actually didn't have the stupid mind set that admins are the rulers. And no Spartan-077 its not, you used to believe the same way, now you don't. What happened? I can answer that, you have started to follow the admins every whim so that you can be an admin yourself. Don't deny it, you yourself have already said that you want to be an admin. So that want will eat your insides until you are only focused on one goal. Thanks, H*bad (talk)

H*bad, the reason most people have that mindset is because at any other site besides wikia, that admin's decision is final. Period. Here at wikia, while it isn't final, we were entrusted with special buttons because we were believe to be able to make those decisions, and as such, a decision made by the admin team should be final, but is not necessarily final.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 12:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Just because you live in the world, doesn't mean that you should live as the world. Why must we continue just to go hey we also are an admin so obey us, like all of these other wikis do? Why can't we be the role-model site? Thanks, H*bad (talk)

H*bad, do you really think your ideas are original, that no one else has tried them before? I garuntee someone has tried a site on the same level as yours, and as evidenced by the current way almost all sites function, the idea didn't work. Your ideas sound wonderful on paper, but they are not plausable in an imperfect world, which is what we live in. I am not saying that because other sites have it that the admin decision is final, we should too. I am saying that since it has been an effective policy since the very dawn of site management, we should at least consider that an admin decision should have some weight behind it. Furthermore, you have contradicted an earlier statement by suggesting that the admins are not part of the community. Ideally, all an admin is is a member of the community with some extra buttons and responsibilities. You cannot say that we are not above the community in one statement, then that we are role models for the community (placing us above the community) in another statement, and expect me to take anything you say seriously.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 21:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I never said my thoughts were original. You guys said the admins aren't apart of the community, I said that they were apart of the community. Now you are putting words into my mouth. Now you guys act like we aren't in the community. I have been saying this whole time that we are apart of the community, you guys brought up the idea that we are like the parents and we can't give the child, the wiki, everything it wants. Back on subject, did anyone realize that o,malley did absolutely nothing wrong after being unbanned. If the admins find anything, then they are just scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Look, O,malley is obviously trusted by the community and thus is a trusted individual. He has changed, he changed in fact after he was unbanned. Lets stop getting off topic. Thanks, H*bad (talk)

Aside from the fact that you avoided my point, and I quote, "I believe truly that the admins have said enough and need the community to decide, the community meaning minus the admins." And while we're on the subject of putting words into people's mouths, RR doesn't recall ever agreeing to unban O'Malley, which you claimed he said in the thread where you all voted for an unban. As for O'Malley, I will again state that because O'Malley never should have been unbanned in the first place, it didn't matter if he did anything wrong after being unbanned. He was rebanned because you failed to talk to any of the other admin about unbanning. And, taking into account the final vote, including admin votes, it would be 7v6 in favor of unban. That isn't what I call trust. Furthermore, O'Malley has "changed" in the past. He has, after all, been banned twice before for the same stuff. And immediately after the bans, he was good. But then he did it again. Well, he's out of luck this time, because the third ban is a permaban. And, again, if you guys have problems with this, take it to the civility clause, not the admins who were simply upholding rules the community asked them to uphold.
 * -- Master Gunnery Sergeant  Hank J Wimbleton IV COM 05:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I was told that RR had planned on unbanning o,malley. You guys need to check the forums, apparently Ajax is the only one that does. Well then, if we can have a vote to ban then why not another vote to unban? Because if we can just start up random votes then why not? And I know you are lying, everyone does. Thanks, H*bad (talk)
 * ...I had never said anything of the sort. I would really quite appreciate it if I could be consoluted first to confirm I had said something before something is done in my name. Warm regards,  RelentlessRecusant  (Bureaucrat) (Talk) (Contribs) 19:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I never asked for this and I never wanted this, and I'm fairly certain that those behind O'Maley are all on the same pedestal I am right now, and then when the vote was cast the community had a majority in favor of O'Malley, it was what the community wanted, the same "community" u r claiming wants him banned, now, are we talking about completely different groups of users here, or has one of us made a fucking huge mistake
 * Exactly what I am sayin here... The community wanted him unbanned, and now this new "community" wants him banned?? I mean what is that all about? Thanks, H*bad (talk)

Oh H*Bad...Ya got me in a tough one here. Alot has changed since last summer, since the rebellion. At the time I was angry with an administrator, so I was all too happy to go shouting "The admins are corrupt!!!!111!!!" But since then, I've thought differently about things, and perhaps now I see where the true corruption is. On another note, I do hope to become an administrator sometime in the near future, of course, that could mean quite a while...

-- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 14:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

You know I have never stuck my neck out before for a something and I will say right here that even if I was to lose my adminship for this, I won't care. I don't care about power, in fact, if I was de-admined I would actually be a lot happier. I came here thinking it was going to be a great wiki to start with, a new beginning for me. And then I met this admin team that won't bring back this user after the community had already decided to bring it back. Thanks, H*bad (talk)

No H*Bad, from what i've seen, you haven't listened to the other admins and then tricked us into thiking that this was a democracy and we get a say in whether he comes back. Then other adins tell us that we're wrong and that O'Malley coming back was wrong. You're the one who isn't being part ofhe admin team properly and so don't go and blame it on others. I'm sorry but this is getting stupid. Do what you like i don't care any more.

Dude obviously you don't know what you are talking about. I am saying this is a democracy, perhaps you need to use your eyes and read that. I am actually with you guys. Just don't comment if you don't understand thank you. On another point: "Also know that administrators are supposed to be in charge of the community and can even overrule the community's wishes."-Spartan-091: Oh yeah thats really community friendly there. "a decision made by the admin team should be final"-Rotaretilbo: Oh really? Well I don't think thats true and I have noticed that a lot of others don't think that same way either, perhaps you need to change your ways. You know what, let me just show you how there are people above the law. I am going to say it, I horribly dislike this administration team and I think all of them, minus about 2 are idiots. Thanks, H*bad (talk)

Silence!
I've had enough of this. Pointing fingers, yelling, all that......... QUIT. You people are supposed to be good members and admins, but you're acting like 5 year olds, all of you! You make me regret that I even created this forum, ever thought that instead of bickering and arguing you could actually have an intelligent discussion. I see that I was wrong to think that

To Rot: Yes, O'malley broke the rules. And I would like to point out here that I'm not sticking anyone on a pedestal; we're all just users. But here's what you can't understand about why I would defend him, after all he did, after all he said: O'malley was my friend, and I respected him no matter how much of a moron he was. I'd do that for any of you, no matter how idiotic or stupid the crime if I thought you deserved otherwise.

To H*Bad: I agree we should try to be role-models, but remember that the first place to start is with yourself. Now I ask you to just calm down, do what you can yourself, and don't do something stupid like lose your adminship.

To Ajax: Yes, I believe that some form of announcement would have been better. I never have, don't and never will like it when people do things that someone else, especially myself, should know about and don't let them know it happened.

To S-089: I'm sorry, but holding polls for stuff isn't going to be a good idea. The poor new user that makes an NCF article would be kicked in two seconds of his appearance.

To Hollywood: Actually, I think we're supposed to hold RfA's to determine new admins. Of course, I've never witnessed it here as we don't need any.

Now, I'll have you know that after having a week to get out of the state I was in, I have no wish to leave. I just really, really wish some of you would pick up your act and stop acting the way you do. --MCPO James Davis LOMI HQI hear your criesMay your works be honorable 19:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you LOMI for clearing everything out...please guys, can we become good friends/people again? I hate to see people fighting against each other... - H107<font color="#0090FF">SubtleTank<font color="#00DDDD">Cartographer 20:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I might of gotten a bit carried away yes, but what I say stands. And LOMI, if I may could I have an intelligent conversation with you over IRC? I would like to discuss a very dear matter. Thanks, H*bad (talk)