Forum:Site Name

For those who don't know, there *is* a difference between "fan fiction" and "fanon." A huge difference. ''Fan Fiction is what this wiki is about; fiction written by fans. Fanon is stuff that is not explicitly stated in canon material, but is often accepted as such, as most of this wiki is NOT.'' In case there's more you didn't know, Wikia has recently stopped creating wikis with the word "fanon" in the name--at least, they've stopped making wikis like *this* one, about fan FICTIon, with "fanon" in the name. It's entirely by the founder's mistake that this is the Halo Fanon wiki, and not the Halo Fan Fiction wiki, which is why I think the site name should be changed. The Project namespace would be changed, so there would be pages called Halo Fan Fiction:About instead of Halo Fanon:About, and the wiki would move to. To make sure no one who decides not to participate in this discussion doesn't wonder where the site went, this subdomain could easily be redirected to the new one, so, while you'd eventually have to get used to a different site address, at first it would be okay if you forgot the name changed or something. Anyway, what y'all think?  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  02:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Italics stuff is an edit.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  03:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Support (9/2 Sysop)

 * 1)  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  02:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Heck yes. -- Your Worst Nightmare  03:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) I agree with the statement. Thanks, H*bad (talk)
 * 4) Yeah, this has always bugged me. When I think 'fanon' I think the "Adventures of Johnson" not "The Brute giant death machine". You have my support, GPT. --User:KillerCRS "I'm awesome". 21:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) I've read many reasons against this stating that "they don't really care about the name" or something along those lines. If the name doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter if the name is changed. Besides, it seems fair to change the name to something more appropriate.  Ha lo Du de 21:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) I trust urban dictionary about as far as I can throw them, but I suppose we probably should be using Wikia's official definition, since we are a wikia wiki. Adding something to MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning, would help, I would recommend it even if the name isn't changed (Maybe something like "All works that contradict established canon may be moved to user space".) User:Tesfan 21:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) Because GPT is always right. Especially about this. --  J C  21:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) I'm sorry that I misread GPT's diatribe above -- I've always called this "Halo Fan Fiction", not "Halo Fanon". Thus, I support the name of Halo Fan Fiction (I note that it was HBad that perpetually calls this Halo Fanon). Regards, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 21:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) Grammatical: "that" --> "who." Sensical: "calls" --> "called." Sorry, just had to be done. =P  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  21:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) Everything here is not fanon, it's fan fiction, it deserves to stay. Also, I have another problem with fanon. Wikia has stopped allowing the name to be used in requests. Such as when I requested the Wiki, Call of Duty Fanon, I got it back, yes, but its name had been changed to Call of Duty Fan Fiction. This is obviously a sign that Wikia accepts fan fiction as correct.-- Canis Lupus [[Image:Wolf paw.jpg|20px]] - The Pack - - Kill - -  Join the Pack  - 21:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Neutral (5)
Ultimate Monster Lord The Lord of Grunts Just another SPARTAN MCPO James Davis Alternate Reality Halo I here your cries May your works be honorable 15:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) I don't really care. The reason at the top of the page is convincing, though.  03:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) A name is a name. I don't think it would really matter if it was changed or not. People will just have to type more to get the name down. --
 * 3) I don't care. -- The Lord of Monster Island
 * 1) This hasn't really bothered me, but I'll sit back and let events unfold. --A GIANT CHEESE ROLL WITH COME AND CRUSH YOU DOWN TO ITTY-BITTY PIECES! ZOMG! • Save us from the Cheese roll! • The cheddar horror! 21:03, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Doesn't bother me but please give an advanced warning if this goes though. Masterchief46517 09:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Meh. Fanon, fan fiction. It's all the same to me. Darth mavoc 23:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Against (8/2 Sysop)
Spartan 501 04:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) You stated, "For those who don't know, there *is* a difference between "fan fiction" and "fanon." A huge difference.", though never stated the difference between the two. I do know the difference, though that lack of information hasn't persuaded me to supporting.  02:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) !bAH, sorry, I'll change that... but FYI, you shouldn't support screwing over this wiki just because I forgot to elaborate...  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  03:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Prefer the current name, and the way the site currently operates, or rather should operate. When people do indeed think Fanon, the same thing happens to me, they think "ok, what does this mean". That makes them read the rules. After reading the rules they can understand how to operate on this site and how to avoid breaking them, which makes less work for everyone else. When I first join a Fan Fiction site, I didn't even bother to rude the rules because the first thing that comes to mind is "Write whatever the crap you want, just make a small reference to whatever it is based on". Most users, will probably think the same thing when seeing the site name, which makes it a better idea to have the name fanon.--SPARTAN-G023 <font color="#006400">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History[[Image:Spartan III.png|30px]]<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">le <font color="#000000">ad<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">Head <font color="#000000">quarters 23:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) I'm not talking about changing how it operates... and what's your *reason* for not wanting the new name? Thx.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC) Like I said to Spartan 501, by not using the word how it should be used, you're encouraging those people who don't know what it really means to use that false definition, which I think is worse than having to tell a couple users to read the rules. But still, as I've also said several times, you could just stick a notice in MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning saying what to and what not to write.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  01:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) I Highly doubt that would work. When I first joined wikia, I looked at help editing first, and I didn't give a damm what the Mediawiki:copyrightwarning had to say. The same was when I first joined Halo-Fanon. Of course, later on I did read it and see what it had to say, but if a user is new like me, he might not read the copyrightwarning either, but the word Fanon would make him look a little more closely to the rules.--<font color="#000000">SPARTAN-G023 <font color="#006400">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History[[Image:Spartan III.png|30px]]<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">le <font color="#000000">ad<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">Head <font color="#000000">quarters 03:46, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) Okay, so they can stick it in Help:Editing too. And still, what's your reason for thinking that the word "fanon" makes people more likely to read the rules? What on Earth does that word have to do with that!?  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  03:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) Its because fanon is not a mainstream word. When less people know the world, when somebody sees the word for the first time it makes them want to know what it means.--<font color="#000000">SPARTAN-G023 <font color="#006400">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History[[Image:Spartan III.png|30px]]<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">le <font color="#000000">ad<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">Head <font color="#000000">quarters 18:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) SPARTAN-G023 nailed what I was trying to say right on the head. Since fanon is less of a mainstream word, people are intrigued by it, want to learn what it means, so they read the definition and then by extension read the rules, and don't make canon-unfriendly stuff. Spartan 501 23:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) Depends what you mean by "the definition," because they're certainly not reading the definition of "fanon," even though that's what they're being told they're reading... because, like I say, that is NOT what "fanon" means!  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) Sorry for that, I mean they go looking for the definition, or pherhaps since they don't immediatly know the meaning and pherhaps are in doubt to what is acceptable, find the rules and read them and by extension realize the purpose of the site and it's followng of canon.
 * 1) I think it's a matter of interpretation (as far as I know, there is no official dictionary definition of fanon). When I first came to this site, I assumed the "fanon" part, meant "fan fiction that is related to canon", or "fan (made) canon". When I think of fan fiction, I think of "fan made stories related to this universe", or literately "fan (made) fiction (as in made-up)". I think a change to the name "fan-fiction" would imply that anything goes, which isn't the case here. Just my thoughts. Tesfan 01:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) I'm just going by Wikia's and Urbandictionary's definition here... I think we should just do what Wikia's doing.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) Yes there is a difference, and we are using fanon. Since we are strictly enforcing canon, which is good for us.--<font color="Tan">Bugger | <font color="Blue">Bug Meundefined 02:22, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) Except that's not what fanon means... fanon is something that is not explicitly stated, but is accepted as canon. There is something VERY wrong with you if you're accepting the articles on this site as canon.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) I am against this for one main reason. I theorize that if we change this site's name to Halo fanfiction or something similar, the vast majority of new users will automatically think of sites such as fanfiction.net, and will not follow stated canon.  Futhermore, they may use it to create wholly out-of-place articles and novellas, such as we've seen in the International Space Station Corporation, which will then have to be moved to user namespaces and/or deleted.  I believe that when people see the world fanon, more often than nought (pherhaps even only by a slim margin) they do not immediatly recognize the word, and thus read the rules much more carefully, and realize the full intent of the site, as well as the fact that it cooxesists with canon.  This means that pherhaps less articles will have to be moved, less flaming will go on, less tempers will rise, and their will be less work for the admins. Spartan 501 04:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) By using a false definition, you're actually *promoting* that falsehood. Is it really that hard to say in MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning that all fanfiction must follow canon? No, it isn't; if anyone breaks that rule, you delete the page, simple as that.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) Your point doesn't completely adress mine. What I'm saying is that alot of the people who use the internet casually and stumble upon our site, as it is, don't immediatly recognize the word fanon, and thus read the rules carefully.  I'm saying that if it is changed to "fanfiction" or something similar, then many of the random people who find the site and are intrested, will create stuff, that, while relevant to halo, breaks canon atrociously.  I know that if I had seen "halo-fanfiction wikia" I would have immediatly posted something that completely tears canon to shreds, and would have been none the wiser. Spartan 501 02:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) And what's your reasoning for thinking that most people think that "fanon" is "fan fiction that agrees with canon" and that "fan fiction" is "stuff written by fans that doesn't necessarily follow canon," other than that it's what *you* think? Anyone who visits Central Wikia's Gaming Hub, reads Wikipedia, or browses through Urban Dictionary should know what they *really* mean.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  03:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC) Hmm... you say "alot of...people...don't immediatly recognize the word fanon, and thus read the rules carefully." The only problem with using that word to make them do that is it makes them think that's what the word "fanon" means, which it doesn't... so you're teaching them lies by using that word in the title.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  03:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) No. Leave as is.  And what are you doing here, GPT? Aren't you usually at hpedia?   SPARTAN-091  |Admin|  [[Image:UNSC.jpg|15 px]]  HelmetComm  04:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) Care to explain why?  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC) And what I'm doing here is trying to get the name changed to the truth.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  21:00, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 11) As per SPARTAN-091. (Redacting vote) Cheers,  RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg <font color="#A9A9A9">TALK • <font color="A9A9A9">MESSAGE 04:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 12) Care to explain why?  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:35, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 13) Halo Fanon has always been the name, why change it now? Keep it Halo Fanon! -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted)[[Image:ROY!.jpg|25px]] 04:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 14) Care to explain why?  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 15) Fanon just sounds better, and fanon has multiple meanings, for me, its interchangable with fan fiction.--Ajax 013 21:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 16) It has multiple meanings, but Wikia's official definition is the one I think this wiki should go by, as it *is* a Wikia wiki.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  21:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 17) Per all above, and the fact that I find "fanon" to mean "fan fiction that either follows canon, or could be mistaken for canon". 03:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 18) It doesn't matter what *you* find "fanon" to mean, because you don't run the site. Wikia does, though, which is why I believe we should use their definition.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 19) Telling me that what I think doesn't matter isn't exactly the nicest thing to say... Could you link me to a Wikia Central page saying what they find "fanon" to mean, though? 09:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 20) I'm just saying that the internet doesn't revolve around you, and this site should use everyone else's definition. I can't find where it says it on Central, but I cite Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia (scroll down a bit to see where they mention it) as sources for what "fanon" really means, and to show that it does not apply to the content of this wiki.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  01:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC) Actually, here it is: w:Talk:OpEd:Fanon Vs. Fan Fiction  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  01:24, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 21) Well, that notice even said, some fanon sites turn up fan fiction, and fan fiction sites sometimes turn up fanon. Is it a need for the sites name to be changed in the even that a handful of users write fan fiction as opposed to fanon? I certainly don't think so.--<font color="#000000">SPARTAN-G023 <font color="#006400">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History[[Image:Spartan III.png|30px]]<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">le <font color="#000000">ad<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">Head <font color="#000000">quarters 02:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 22) Except this site does *not* turn up fanon. Everything on this site is fan fiction, so the name should reflect that.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  02:37, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 23) Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia, though right most of the time, aren't reliable sources because of the ability to be edited by anyone, anytime. W:Talk:OpEd:Fanon Vs. Fan Fiction does not show what Wikia, either as a whole of staff or as a whole of users, thinks "fanon" means. PanSola is not a staff member, so he can't speak for the Wikia staff. 05:40, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 24) Wikipedia uses a logical fallacy called ad populum, or "appeal to the people." Users discuss--and vote on--what is truth and what is lies. This makes Wikipedia less reliable for other kinds of information, but, when it comes to words, what the *majority* of people say it means is really what it means, which is why Wikipedia is right in this case. PanSola is a Helper, so he can speak for Wikia to an extent... there was a talk page I wanted to post (where a staff member actually agreed with his definition), but I couldn't find it.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  04:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 25) I support halo fanon.Eaite&#39;Oodat 19:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments
Shouldn't you talk this over with the administration of the wiki before asking the community? After all, this wiki is not a democracy.

--<font color="#000000">SPARTAN-G023 <font color="#006400">Comm Channel <font color=#000000>Mission History<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">le <font color="#000000">ad<font color="#D3D3D3">Gh <font color="#A9A9A9">ost <font color="#808080">Head <font color="#000000">quarters 03:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a democracy, but the community still decides what happens.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  03:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I said that exact same thing and they are probably going to get pretty angry about the thought that someone didn't talk this over with them. Just a warning... Thanks, H*bad (talk)
 * They can't get angry because I asked you guys a simple question... if you decide you want the name changed to reflect correctality (yes, that is a word now. =P), staff will change it, and there's nothing they can do about it; when they say it's not a democracy, all it means is that *votes* don't aren't weighed as heavily as *discussion*.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  23:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have a question for GPT, why do you want to change the name so bad? -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)(The State Alchemists we've enlisted) 14:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that he thinks we're losing possible members. -- The Lord of Monster Island

<font color=#9999FF>Ultimate Monster Lord <font color=#660099>The Lord of Grunts Just another SPARTAN <font color=#00FF00>MCPO James Davis <font color=#FFCC00>Alternate Reality Halo <font color=#33FFFF>I here your cries <font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable 15:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think you're losing possible members... I just want the name to be *correct*, because saying it's a wiki about "fanon" is a LIE. I just want people to be able to tell what it's *really* about by the name.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  20:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the statement "Fan Fiction is what this wiki is about; fiction written by fans." isn't entirely true. From looking at the rules and what I've seen, the wiki is more about "fiction written by fans that are carefully scrutinized to make sure they do not break or contradict any official canon." Also, I think some people, when they think of fan fiction, they think of fanfiction.net, where anything goes, which isn't the case here. Tesfan 18:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why I suggest writing "your fiction can not contradict fanon" in MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning or something to that effect. Saying the wiki is for fan fiction and dealing with a couple users who can't be bothered to read six words right below the the edit box might be bad... but saying it's about fanon when it isn't is MUCH worse.  Guesty - Persony - Thingy  20:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

GPT, why are you striking out people's messages in the oppose section? Isn't that against the rules? -- The Lord of Monster Island <font color=#9999FF>Ultimate Monster Lord <font color=#660099>The Lord of Grunts Just another SPARTAN <font color=#00FF00>MCPO James Davis <font color=#FFCC00>Alternate Reality Halo <font color=#33FFFF>I here your cries <font color=#CC3333>May your works be honorable 15:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the reason mine and Tesfan's votes were crossed out because Tesfan changed his vote to support, and I changed mine to neutral. 19:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)